Scoot desperately, desperately wants you to know it’s a cool brand.
Its advertisements are lighthearted and whimsical. Its marketing team is quick to capitalize on social media drama. Cabin crew are called Scootees, the booking screen greets you with “hey gorgeous”, and you can’t go more than five lines on its corporate site without reading about “Scootitude“.
But beneath Scoot’s light, fluffy facade lurks a serious communications problem, and recent incidents have only served to make it painfully obvious.
The bad old days of budget airlines
Let’s start with a bit of context. Back in October 2017 I offered some advice to Scoot on how (not) to handle major delays, in light of a 24 hour delay that befell passengers on TR1, a Scoot flight from SYD-SIN.
Scoot’s handling of the incident, in my opinion, was abysmal. There was no semblance of a proper crisis management plan, the logistics to attend to stranded passengers were woefully inadequate, and there was a consistent lack of on-ground communication and timely updates. Customers who tried to reach out to Scoot via its social media pages were stonewalled throughout the entire incident.
It didn’t help that a few days before, Lee Lik Hsin, the Scoot CEO, asserted in an interview with Channel NewsAsia that “the bad old days” of budget airlines were gone.
“I think some of the negative perceptions around budget airlines have arisen from previous practices, as to whether or not we take care of our customers, particularly during times of disruption,” he said.
“The industry model has changed. It’s no longer the bad old budget airlines of the past, leaving you stranded. We all take care of our customers. We have to.”
The timing of the interview couldn’t have been worse, but you might be charitable and write it off as a really bad coincidence. I mean, even five star airlines have bad days.
Here’s the problem: there’s nothing to suggest that anything has changed in the way Scoot handles or communicates during major delays.
Scoot has had seven major delays in the past two months
The past two months have provided plenty of opportunities for Scoot to show how contingency management plans have improved since that ill-fated Sydney flight. There have been seven major technical or utilization delays in this period, three of which lasted more than 24 hours:
- 9 November: TR734 from SIN to TXL delayed 10 hours
- 21 November: TR18 from SIN to MEL delayed 8 hours
- 25 November: TR616 from BKK to SIN delayed 7 hours
- 26 November: TR869 from BKK to SIN delayed 29 hours
- 18 December: TR713 from ATH to SIN delayed more than 2 days
- 30 December: TR899 from TPE to SIN delayed almost 2 days
- 1 January: TR100 from SIN to CAN delayed 14 hours
Now, let’s put aside for a second the fact that delays of this length shouldn’t be happening with such frequency. What concerns me is that when you read the news reports or accounts of customers on these flights, the exact same issues keep popping up: the absence of timely communication and updates, poor contingency planning and a lack of frontline staff empowerment. It’s as if nothing has been learned since Sydney.
Let’s zoom in on one of the recent delays: TR899 from TPE to SIN. If you have the time, do read the detailed account of one passenger, because the whole thing reads like a gigantic snafu. To summarize- TR899 was scheduled to take off from Taipei on Sunday, Dec 30 at 4.10pm, and arrive in Singapore at 8.45pm on the same day. When did passengers finally get to Singapore? 2.56am on Jan 1 (updated: previously wrongly cited Jan 2) Wow.
In stressful situations like this, customers want the assurance that someone is listening and working on the problem. That’s why they turn to social media, supposedly the fastest way of getting a response. You might think that a social media-savvy brand like Scoot would be all over this, using its various channels to engage customers, issue statements and provide reassurance.
Well, here’s a post made by a passenger stranded on TR899, asking Scoot for assistance on the day of the incident.
How long did Scoot take to reply? Just shy of 46 hours.
Another passenger tweeted Scoot for help:
Response time? 46 hours (that’s consistency right there).
At least they got a response. This other passenger is still waiting for one…
Think I’m cherry picking examples? Look at their Facebook page. Read their Twitter feed. Note the average response time. It’s measured in days, not minutes. I get that a customer service rep sitting in Singapore may not be empowered to resolve a situation thousands of miles away. But like I said, timely communication is a way of alleviating passenger stress- it lets them know they’ve not been left for dead.
Perhaps it’s not Scoot’s fault. The incident did happen over the New Year’s period, and you can hardly expect anyone to be working then…right?
Remember how SMRT started a Twitter account after the major outage in 2011, and everyone laughed that its profile said the channel was manned “9am-6pm, Mon-Fri (excl public holidays)?” If that isn’t the textbook definition of “not getting it”, I don’t know what is.
So surely a young and hip brand like Scoot wouldn’t make the same mistake, would they? I’ll let this excerpt from their Facebook page speak for itself:
Answering queries from 9am to 6pm, Mondays to Fridays, would be just fine, if the airline only operated from 9am to 6pm, Mondays to Fridays. Unfortunately, that’s not how it works. Real-time operations necessitate real-time communication, whether you’re a full service carrier or a budget airline.
Look at how JetBlue, a budget airline in the US, uses Twitter to take care of its customers. Note the lightning fast response times- people are tweeting delays, baggage losses, and other questions and getting replies within 20, 30 minutes.
These responses may not “fix” anything, in the sense that flights are still delayed and baggage is still lost. But dammit, at least someone is listening. It’s amazing how much customers will be willing to forgive if they just know they’re not talking to a brick wall. Why Scoot hasn’t figured this out yet is anyone’s guess.
The “safety comes first” strawman
Scoot likes to project the image of a straight talking, no nonsense brand. Why then, are its PR responses to these incidents anything but?
June 2015, TZ220– “The safe operation of our airline is paramount and will not be compromised.”
June 2015, TZ8– “A delayed flight can be frustrating for passengers whose travel plans have been disrupted but Scoot would like to emphasise that safety is our top priority.”
October 2017, TR1– “Safety is of utmost importance to Scoot, and we will spare no effort in making sure all our flights operate safely.”
November 2018, TR734– “Safety is critical and Scoot will always ensure that this is utmost in our considerations.”
December 2018, TR899– “Safety is of utmost priority to Scoot, and we sincerely apologise for the inconvenience caused to our customers’ travel plans.”
Sense a trend? No attempt to explain why the on-ground contingency plan was so abysmally executed, or what they’re going to do to prevent it from happening in the future. No acknowledgement of why people are so cheesed off. Just the hackneyed “safety comes first” motherhood statement.
I know why they do it. Safety is an easy dodge for an airline, because once you mention “safety”, who can argue with you? But here’s the thing: no one is asking Scoot to compromise safety. What people are asking for is a well-conceptualized and executed contingency plan. To be taken care of during a delay, to receive timely updates and to know that someone is working on the problem. Safety is the bare minimum that people should expect from an airline, and you don’t win brownie points by promising that to your customers.
Sadly, this attempt to reframe the narrative works, at least for some people…
It’s frustrating beyond words that Scoot keeps trotting out this line whenever things go wrong. We get it- you’re big on safety. Couldn’t you also be big on customer care too?
Concluding Thoughts
Scoot’s CEO wants you to believe that the bad old days of budget airlines are gone. Unfortunately, the record does not match the rhetoric.
When we fly a budget airline, we accept certain trade-offs for low fares. I know my meal won’t be free. I know I’ll have to pay for a bag. I know I’ll be upsold at every opportunity. That’s the unspoken agreement. I just expect the airline to get me there on safely and on time, failing which I expect them to have a proper contingency management plan. That’s non-negotiable, and that’s what Scoot has not delivered on.
The past two months should be fair warning to anyone considering flying with Scoot- if everything goes according to plan, you’ll have a cheap, unmemorable flight. But if not? All bets are off. And all the light and breezy marketing in the world won’t make you feel better.
Wrong again – TPE flight landed on 1st Jan… not 2nd – in the article you quoted.
Also, no mention of the $600 we were given, the endless meals and snacks. Everyone wants to be a social media hero… Nightmareliner 787 has lots of issues all around the world – try googling that too!
thank you for pointing out the typo! i’ve updated it.
i’m glad you were happy with your outcome. me, i’d prefer to get home on time.
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/transport/passenger-aviation-deaths-up-sharply-in-2018
Better late than dead #chooselife
Dude, did you even read the article before firing off that line.
“But here’s the thing: no one is asking Scoot to compromise safety. What people are asking for is a well-conceptualized and executed contingency plan”
Pfft.
Good on them that they gave you $600 and meals for the TPE flight delay. But I’m not sure of it’s part of a well defined contingency plan or something adhoc put together for the 2 day delay.
To be fair, considering their operational problems (see my other comment), even if they DID have a good contingency plan, it would just be more of the same. Unless these incidents and bad press piss off SQ management enough that SQ will take passengers affected by Scoot irrops on their revenue flights. (Jetstar does this, apparently, people have been rebooked on QF per Flyertalk) Apparently an SQ A330 bailed out the passengers stuck in TPE, but I doubt SQ likes having to scramble charters at very short notice, and even so the charter would take a while to get there… Read more »
“Dooode”, yes, thanks. I was replying to “I’d prefer to get home on time”. I’d rather the plane was safe and didn’t just push on regardless (like in some of the examples in the above article). Engine spoiled on first day, part flown in to fix it. Engine turns out still spoiled on second day so they send up an empty SQ 330 and TR 320 to recover – sounds like a pretty simple and clearly defined contingency plan. And as for alternatives – on NYE? You think there was 300+ seats on another airline available? Sure, people are angry.… Read more »
TPE is lucky, plenty of rebooking opportunities out of there.
SQ – 2 daily
TR – still have TR897 and TR875
Jetstar – 3 daily
EVA – 2 daily
CI – 3 daily
That’s 12 flights for those in a rush, and then a TR A320 can pick up the stragglers. The question is how to fairly distribute all those demand (inevitable facebook post: “my friend got a seat on the SQ flight, why do I have to take Jetstar”)…
“Clearly Scoot should always fly a spare aircraft alongside the other just to make sure you get home in time!”
Alternatively, they could devote more resources into maintenance or not driving their planes to breaking point. They just need to ask their parent company how it is achievable.
As I see it, the only difference between Scoot and Lion Air is that they are catching the problems while the plane is on the ground.
They just need to ask their parent company how it is achievable? Hmmm. There’s a reason Scoot and SQ are two completely different entities..
And taking your analogy further, then it’s akin to saying that the only difference between Singapore and Malaysia is that we tend to catch the corrupt individuals before they get too far.
“There’s a reason Scoot and SQ are two completely different entities.”
Yes. One knows how to operate an airline while the other doesn’t. And I’m really tired of all the excuses people are making to absolve them from any responsibility when their planes breakdown.
High utilization and little slack in the fleet is literally how a budget airline works.
Still, Scoot should be learning from AirAsia or Jetstar, who apparently are doing this better in nearly all aspects. (IIRC, there’s QF Group-wide rebooking in irrops, and lounge access for QF elites travelling on JQ, just for example?)
Clearly an undercover marketing agent that works for Scoot
Scoot made 5.8 cents per seat-km as of Q2 2018. Their operating cost is 4.9 cents per seat-km.
This means they make a profit of just over $28 for the 3200km flight from TPE to SIN.
$600, meals and drinks, and then hotel accoms.
i suspect the real truth will be reveal if you do a search on the 787 engines that scoot is using
I got curious, so I looked it up. They have 18 Dreamliners. -OFC (last seen 15 Oct, DMK-SIN) and -OJA (last seen 13 Oct, TPE-SIN) haven’t logged any activity on FR24 in the past week. -OFJ, nothing since the 2nd (probably maintenance). I’d hate to be Scoot ops, especially since this is high season. 2/10 of the 788 fleet, and 1/8 of the 789 fleet down is bad news. And do SQ have enough old 772s/A330s for Scoot to charter on a medium term/as needed basis? (Still, Scoot can possibly afford to be a bit more generous with rebooking, if… Read more »
I forgot there’s Wamos Air and HiFly among other charter operators, perhaps Scoot could consider taking a medium term wet lease from them as well?
(it would be also quite funny if the ex-SQ A380 that went to HiFly ended up back in SQ Group service)
Unfortunately, we have an impotent regulator (CAAS) that does nothing to protect the rights of passengers. In the EU, Scoot would have been fined for this atrocious behaviour.
On New Year’s Day I was flying back from the US and tweeted a complimentary message about Unuted’s Polaris lounge at EWR. Within 3 minutes they had replied to the tweet. Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for a reply from AirAsia in November, and when I tweeted about a CebuPac issue last fall the only response I got was from Changi Airport. Give US legacy carriers a hard time is you will (I certainly do) but at least they have someone watching their social media on a holiday.
Want cheap, want fresh, want two big xxxx….
Devil’s advocate – the social media platforms may not even be run by Scoot employees.
Probably an outside contractor comes up with the cool marketing, and when shit hits the fan, then has to go through god knows how much red tape and such to get things escalated to someone who can help. This is Singapore, after all.
Perhaps you might want to check if this happens with SQ’s own social media pages as well? But this is definitely a very bad look, especially since SQ now codeshares on Scoot to more and more places.
their pages are run by scoot’s internal marketing team. i know because i work for the airport. they’ve been more than happy going on stage to win marketing awards but silent when it comes to helping passengers.
Do us a favour and forward this page to the Scoot social media team. Let’s see how long they’d reply :3
And lightning quick, here come the trolls trying to change the narrative with their warped logic of “better late than never” and “fly budget, expect first class treatment”. If only Scoot responded half as fast as the trolls defending them. Again, no one is insisting that Scoot flies faulty planes. If safety really was their priority, it would have encompassed maintaining their fleet to standards where delays are minimal. Similarly, no one is expecting to be assigned a personal concierge to attend to their needs during a delay. All they ask is to be treated with dignity. If this is… Read more »
TIL it’s their fault that they’re hit heavily by 787 engine problems. Perhaps SIA shouldn’t have bought those 787s for Scoot in the first place?
exactly this. saying “you’re flying budget, do you expect first class treatment” is another strawman.
no one expects first class treatment on budget. they just want to not be left in the dark when something goes wrong.
Apparently Scoot doesn’t even have their own staff at outstations as far as ATH, everything is handled by contractors. Nobody may be there to make decisions without bureaucratic back and forth with the Singapore ops room, who probably already have their hands full. It makes me wonder just how empowered their social media team is, if they aren’t completely outsourced, Especially in Singapore where social media is deemed a “marketing” thing and not a “corp comms/customer communication” thing (yes, some managers think there IS a distinction). Who knows, the marketing guys who run the twitter account may have to wait… Read more »
Outsourcing doesn’t relieve you of responsibility, though. It’s still on you to make sure things happen properly. Although I do get your point about why that might be an issue- The separation of communications from operations
(I’m studying some operations management, so I’ll bite) Yes it doesn’t relieve the head office of responsibility, and it definitely does raise some question on how scoot does things, I frankly think this is a far more systemic issue than just “boo hoo no one tells me why I’m stuck in the airport” (dramatizing, but whatever) But as they say, “no plan survives first contact with the enemy”, and boardingarea/flyertalk is full of stories on how outsourced ground staff (in general, not just scoot) basically fall apart when confronted with things they’ve never dealt with before (and also, do they… Read more »
these are some excellent insights! thank you for sharing
Stop muddying the waters. Scoots service response has issues. That’s clear. But as for why exactly are they having so many issues with the planes, do you have any first hand knowledge?
Hi, just like to give my thoughts. No doubt that they should improve on their PR/customer service side, but i feel that scoot doesnt have the same flexibility as previously to swap aircraft/ send relief flights. All of the major delays you mentioned are all 787 flights, and scoot is currently affected by the rr 787 engine issues. Since Oct’18, they are only operating 16 out of the 18 fleet they have, and even wetleasing a 772 from SIA to operate one of its sin-syd flight. Therefore if any operation issue is found on their aircraft, they do not have… Read more »
sure. i mean, my beef isn’t with the delays. it’s the handling of them. given they’re aware of how thinly they’re stretched due to the rr engine issue, wouldn’t it make sense that they correspondingly beef up their contingency mgmt plan so customers are treated properly if/when a delay does happen?
quick edit: i said beef twice in the same comment. must be hungry.
well, what is actually acceptable in terms of delay frequency/length though? Was on TR181 on 3 Jan – guess what, 5hr delay…
my beef “in this particular article”, i should qualify, is not with the delays 😉
but yes, bigger picture wise the 787 engine issues are really laying plain scoot’s lack of contingency planning
Scoot’s dismissive attitude to customers has been a worrying trend, and it’s not just delays. In another country where the population doesn’t so readily swallow the safety first argument, or the you paid for low cost therefore you can treated like scum line of thought, you’d have uproar and demands to “fix the system”. As Aaron had pointed out, it’s not safety first that’s the issue, it’s the service attitude when a delay happens. My thoughts on Scoot: 1. Constant tinkering with scheduling is disrespectful, and difficult to achieve an appropriate alternative outcome. I’ve noticed that Scoot change their schedules,… Read more »
The exact same can be written for govt. response to causeway jams. Once you mention security, who can argue with you? And since the leaders of the country can do that, who can argue Scoot is wrong? “Sense a trend? No attempt to explain why the on-ground contingency plan was so abysmally executed, or what they’re going to do to prevent it from happening in the future. No acknowledgement of why people are so cheesed off. Just the hackneyed “safety comes first” motherhood statement. I know why they do it. Safety is an easy dodge for an airline, because once… Read more »
Some people trying to compare with SQ https://www.straitstimes.com/forum/letters-in-print/scoot-needs-to-take-serious-look-at-crisis-management-method But seriously, why not take SQ in the first place? For me, I experienced 72hours delay on KLM flight out of Amsterdam… (aircraft issues + the next 2days of weather problem) I dont remember so many people kpkb so hard. The first 12 hours was chaotic, after 72hours i was arranged a Alitalia flight to Milan, and transit to SQ. Took KLM 6months to reimburse all the out of pocket cost incurred though… For me if something not really within my control, and if I am super urgent, I probably fire my… Read more »
Because there are places where SQ doesn’t want to fly, so they’re getting Scoot to fly there instead:
https://milelion.com/2018/11/22/silkair-will-transfer-17-routes-to-scoot-is-this-bad-news-for-krisflyer-members/
Probably good to consider non budget option then. not necessarily SQ.
I took Delta before to Atlanta, and I think it was one of the worst experience i encountered as I missed the connection to Sao Paulo.
Here we go again… Just because Scoot is a budget airline doesn’t absolve them from basic responsibilities when things go wrong. Why do people still think that it is ok for budget airlines to go incommunicado and treat their passengers like pests when there are delays? Because their customers asked for it when they bought a cheap ticket?
Please do not confuse unreasonable demands to be treated like royalty with treating passengers with basic decency!
I think not saying that they can avoid basic responsibility. But as far as I read so far, there are also many overly sense of self entitlement passengers. They compared how other premium airlines handled out free food, accommodation, etc etc.
Sometimes I tends to believe that budget airlines have their operation so lean that they only hire that few ground and support staff to maintain their cost structure.
Regardless of all these events, there will be enough passengers to continue to take Scoot anyway.
How does sense of self entitlement even come into play in this context?
How is expecting free food and accommodation an overly sense of self-entitlement? That Scoot is not ready to fly within a certain tolerance of the specified date and time is already a breach of contract and the very least they could do is to mitigate the breach. The low cost of the ticket does NOT give Scoot the right to abandon their legal obligations. If Scoot really believes that safety is their utmost priority, then why are their planes breaking down so often? Are they also skimping on maintenance? Will you also then justify that the low cost of the… Read more »
Maybe… We only can speculate.
I still believe there is no free lunch.
Scoot needs more passengers like you- people willing to be treated like garbage in exchange for an airfare that is 10-20% cheaper than a legacy airline.
Unfortunately for them, they are in the tiny minority.
Well, Keith, instead of railing on and on on a miles blog about how bad Scoot is, why not take up your concerns with the “impotent” regulator? Have you ever tried writing to the CAAS management about this? And so far Scoot doesn’t seem to be going under the water yet – if there is such a tiny minority as you say, I guess it’s fair to say we’ll see Scoot being wound up within the next couple of years.
Ben- I didn’t say that CAAS was impotent. Don’t put words in my mouth. But truth be told, I wouldn’t be wasting my time with them- not because they’re impotent, but because it serves them no purpose to defend consumers. The tiny minority I was referring to are the few people who are so willing to give up their dignity to be treated like pests when the airline fails its obligations; not those who fly with Scoot. Ask passengers on a Scoot flight and the overwhelming majority will tell you that they wouldn’t want to be treated like that in… Read more »
Keith, which principle or case law are you relying on in your suggestion that as part of Scoot’s contractual duty to mitigate its flight delays, Scoot is liable to the customer for the entire cost of all the accommodation and food for the duration of the delay? This approach is definitely novel and would be interesting to hear more.
Ben- 261/2004. Nothing novel.
The Montreal Convention accords compensation rights to passengers in the event of delays.
Unfortunately, the Montreal Convention lets them get away with it, and I quote, “if it proves that it and its servants and agents took all measures that could reasonably be required to avoid the damage or that it was impossible for it or them to take such measures.” That doesn’t sound like a duty of care provision, unlike EC261.
It would take a court of law at this point, and with enough people fed up with them, see if you can gather up enough people for a class action lawsuit.
That’s European law, not Singapore law. Unfortunately, SIA Group is a Singaporean entity, so EC261 only applies on SIA Group flights out of Europe. If you want it to be Singapore law, go take it up with your MP. Or you’re probably new to this country if you didn’t already know that consumer protections in most forms suck here. They get away with it because the law lets them, that’s an unfortunate fact. As Lucky from OMAAT likes to say, airlines are a microcosm of the countries they come from. Scoot fucking over its passengers is not just a Scoot… Read more »
Yuka- Ben asked for an example and I provided 2.
The Montreal Convention clause on taking all measures to avoid the damage does not apply to technical faults. It applies to events that are out of the airline’s control, such as weather, political instability, Acts of God etc.
Finally… I never thought I’d see anyone (i.e. yuka) with some proper logic (and proper grasp of Singapore law) in this comments section. By the way, Keith, to be clear (and which yuka alluded to), I was indeed asking more about specific Singapore statutory provisions or binding Singapore case law that support your allegation that Scoot’s legal duty (not any other kind of “duty”, which you have been very good at muddying the waters with) to mitigate a contractual breach extends to the coverage of the ENTIRETY of the delayed passenger’s accommodation and food costs. And in case you still… Read more »
Ben, they aren’t the first. There was one post on SQTalk that said things like LCCs and basic economy should be made illegal. Gave me quite a laugh. Scoot’s behavior, while legally correct, may not be morally correct, but that’s just corporate Singapore in general. It’s a genuine grievance, so let’s not just sideline it like that. But at the same time it also does no favors to go all drama mama over the issue. Now, I wonder what Aaron would think if SQ began selling HBO/basic economy fares without checked bags, no KF elite benefits, no/reduced mileage accrual, and… Read more »
“Ben- 261/2004. Nothing novel”.
The fact you responded with such alacrity to my query about Scoot’s contractual duty to mitigate, to allege that it was “261/2004” and “nothing novel” speaks for itself. Have a go at Chitty, Phang or Halsbury’s, will you?
Ben- The delays are occurring in jurisdictions ex-Singapore. Why do you keep insisting on applying Singapore law? Just because Singapore law is silent on mitigating actions doesn’t mean Scoot can get away scot-free when delays occur elsewhere. I’ve already cited EU and have checked for Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and China. All have regulations spelling out what airlines must provide in the event of delays.
If it is anyone that is trying to bamboozle readers, it’s you who is trying to blanket apply Singapore laws on other countries.
Montreal convention: Scoot should have a claims process for any traveler to reclaim costs incurred in a delay. If they don’t, they better get one. That’s a black mark against them and I agree. However, if they had smart lawyers and their recent troubles were really due to the 787 issues, they could fight back and say that there was nothing they could do, after all, short of grounding the fleet and mass cancelations of flights. Hence why I said it would take a court of law, and as Scoot is a Singaporean company, any large legal proceedings would have… Read more »
Yuka- If you’ve read the 7 delays that were mentioned by Aaron, none explicitly state that the cause of delay were due to the engine. So, no I don’t think Scoot could use 787 engine problems as an excuse if the delays weren’t engine related.
Passengers have the right to file claims where they feel they have the best chance of success. Even passengers do not file claims, I’m sure EU prosecutors would take up the case if compensation is not offered.
In a proper lawsuit, the lawyers would have access to Scoot’s maintenance records and would be able to prove/disprove that. We don’t, I was just throwing that out as a possibility. Also, I never said they can’t file claims, and if they did, Scoot could also challenge them in court. Fortunately for the Athens folks, they have a happy ending – https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/scoot-passengers-arrive-singapore-athens-greece-3-day-delay-11052820 “Responding to Channel NewsAsia’s queries, Scoot confirmed that under European regulations, affected customers will be entitled to €600 (S$940) in compensation. The compensation documents were sent to customers via email and in physical copies upon disembarkation in Singapore,… Read more »
“Passengers have the right to file claims where they feel they have the best chance of success. Even passengers do not file claims, I’m sure EU prosecutors would take up the case if compensation is not offered.”
Yet more irresponsible rubbish.
“Yet more irresponsible rubbish.”
Other than poo-pooing and rolling your eyes, why not put your much vaunted legal acumen by explaining in detail why it is rubbish?
If you really are a lawyer, I’d be very hesitant to engage you if that’s all you can do.
We’ll let readers decide. Meanwhile, I’m disengaging with conversing with a self-righteous, condescending prick.
Ahh. Now you’ve finally exposed yourself for who you really are: a name-caller. Ciao! #lotsofgiggles
Lol. Where’s your legal thesis? Believe me, calling you only a prick is a compliment. #nothingbutafraud
“We’ll let readers decide. Meanwhile, I’m disengaging with conversing with a self-righteous, condescending prick.”
… 30 minutes later
“Lol. Where’s your legal thesis? Believe me, calling you only a prick is a compliment. #nothingbutafraud”
Awww…. there there…
Keep it up. You’re only proving me right 🙂
Well, I’m certainly proud to have exposed you for the charlatan and as we now also know, puerile name-caller that you are. And in that regard, if that’s proving you right, then I’m more than happy.
Fancy someone like you, early on claiming the high ground against “trolls”, even before I read this article, and now stooping to calling me a prick (and other compliments) upon being challenged for your repeated inaccurate fluff. But it’s strangely nostalgic to see you’ve taken a leaf out of a prominent person’s book – react to being exposed with more distractions and ad hominems.
You’ve worked doubly hard to earn that title. Wear it with pride and arrogance that you’ve displayed. If it looks like a prick, acts like a prick, then it must be you, Ben.
See? Told you I would be proven right. Everyone thinks you’re a prick! #prickandafraud
The comment above was not posted by me, but obviously great minds think alike 🙂.
Aaron should seriously consider having only registered accounts on your forum.
“If it is anyone that is trying to bamboozle readers, it’s you who is trying to apply Singapore laws on other countries.” “Just because Singapore law is silent on mitigating actions doesn’t mean Scoot can get away scot-free when delays occur elsewhere.”
LOL. As I’ve said, don’t pretend like you know anything about the law (and when and whether Singapore law is applied) when you clearly know absolutely nuts about it. Just for (my, and maybe a few other lurkers here) laughs: do you even know what Rickshaw Investments is about?
Ben- I have nothing more to add if you’re going to adopt a condescending tone. You scoff at others but yet not bothered to enlightened us with your “knowledge of law” other than to belittle others.
Good day and good luck the next time you’re caught in a delay.
Keith – the master of muddying of waters and rojak-ing all the issues into one big incoherent jumble. You have repeatedly in your posts on this article made spurious claims about how and what kinds of obligations Scoot owes to its passengers. When pressed, you went even further to make incorrect statements about the legal duties owed by Scoot to its passngers. As I’ve said, extremely poor service from Scoot is one thing, and the actual rights and obligations of both the airline and passengesr is another. Since you have decided that making baseless motherhood statements on the latter is… Read more »
@Ben,
Please enlighten us what right the condition of carriage from scoot gives us passengers when the airline, scoot, can’t deliver the contracted service, whether scoot’s fault or act of god from a legal perspective?
Thanks.
P.S. do we need pay a fee for your legal advice?
P.P.S. is my only resolution is to suck thumb and let it go?
Regards,
A layman
@freedom. sorry but I’m #nothingbutafraud and a #condescendingprick. definitely too pricked to be able to enlighten you or even command a fee.
Wow, this comment thread should really come with popcorn. As this was merrily distributed in our (aviation related) office we all laughed at your expense Keith – sorry to say. Aviation is a complex business and it’s best to stay out of legal matters that you don’t understand. I won’t bother elaborate (it looks like from the above you’d just reject any opinion contrary to your own anyway) but once in a while take off those rose tinted, entitled, blogger issued, glasses and do some of research of your own… I did a quick search for you. How many legal… Read more »
@Shinko
Whatever shit problem Boeing 787 has has nothing to do with the passengers who purchased tickets from Scoot, not from Boeing. If Scoot can’t manage situation like this, it can choose to cancel tickets sold on 787 and put passengers on other planes or refund the customers.
Is it the 1st day that Scoot is aware of this problem? What has Scoot done to manage it since it learnt this problem?
Scoot has done little for their operational issues and they are rightly being shit on for it, but the beef I have here is a misplaced understanding of the passenger’s rights and responsibilities, regardless of airline. (one other commenter mentions MH, KLM, even ANA gave them problems, and if you want to look there are probably even instances when SQ itself has massively dropped the ball) As a public service, perhaps Aaron could look at the issue of just what a passenger is entitled to in event of severe disruption, budget or full service airline. Maybe as a continuation of… Read more »
Ben/Shinko- you must be really desperate to masquerade as someone else. Everyone has a writing style and yours is uniquely condescending.
Good try but it does really reflect badly on you.
Sweet Jeezus Keith… Your tin hat is in the post.
P.S. The government is outside with a drone watching you brush your teeth and your cat is programmed to record your conversations.
Now skinko? You really are pitiful. Your office environment must be toxic as hell and I don’t envy your coworkers having to put up with you.
@Ben
Dude, you fit exactly what you said.
Scoot is a failure shut it down. Totally irresponsible airline. Don’t ever fly Scoot.
It’s interesting that the merged airline is named Scoot rather than Tigerair – perhaps because Tigerair has already earned a bad reputation. Looks like Scoot is heading in that direction. I’ve never taken Scoot because the prices are consistently higher than Jetstar and Airasia and there’s nothing to justify the difference.
The inflight meal pre-order has been downgraded, I am booking a flight from Singapore to Thailand and the food available only snacks.
Just to add on to the list, TR869 scheduled to depart BKK yesterday at 425pm is still stuck there and scheduled to fly later at 12pm due to technical issue again.
This flight has not taken off yet although it s 1.28 in Bangkok
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/whats-gone-wrong https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/recent-flight-delays In the case of the Dec 18 Athens-Singapore flight which caused a 56-hour delay for passengers, the distance and lack of alternative flights to rescue stranded passengers posed major challenges. Prof Gianasso said: “Flying Scoot on short-haul routes with frequent connections is a pretty safe choice. The risk is a delay of a few hours. But long-haul is a completely different story.” With long flights, there is also a high risk that the regulatory time limits for airline crew can run out. If this happens, another set of crew has to be activated. Before a relief flight can… Read more »
anyway i agree with milelion that ALL airlines budget or non budget, asian or rioting-french or other AMDK airlines, should develop some kind of crisis management SOPs esp for travellers w elderly n young children.
mayb federal aviation agency can oversee this
o/t – Mrs UK_Ship was one of the 284 unlucky ones who had their data leaked by SQ. They are changing her FF number but you feel there should be some sort of compensation for the hassle over this weekend?
MRT breakdown we complain non stop despite SMRT CEO quoting safety is primary concern, Scoot breakdown people praise them for being safe. Get a grip guys whether is it SMRT or Scoot they are bound by the same principles of business, efficient transportation. If you can’t play the game, get out of it. Scoot must take absolute responsibility of these events and ensure it never happens again or suffer severe consequences.
So the ceo should take the responsibilities?
of course
Just wondering, what is a good contingency plan? Is the standard different for budget airline or conventional airline? Once delayed by ~40 hours with ANA and they only opened lounge for passengers to rest on lounge chairs. Another experience with 2 days delay on Jetstar, nothing was offered except a early enough notification on app (12 hours before) so didn’t even need to go to airport. Then >30 hours delay with SQ (operated by lufhansa unfortunately) also received nothing except an early notification (1 day before) >20 hours delay with Malaysia Airline got me a one night stay in a… Read more »
Scoot flight from Amritsar to SG tonight 7/1 delayed by at least 6 hours. Looks like the scooties are going to join lion air and air India on my DNF list .
What’s there to complain about. When someone flies with Scoot or some other LLC, the most likely reason is cost, if no technical faults or bad weather, the airline should be able to get you from point A to B safely and on time. If bad things happen, weather, tech issues which cause some delays. then you really are on your own, that should be the expectation. Why? the airline has to cut down the frills to sell you the seats at the that price. No? if something unexpected happens, they can’t be expecting the contingency services like a full… Read more »
No one asks for full service treatment. But no reasonable treatment is not acceptable. Passengers stuck in the airport without timely information is not right.
Technical fault is not always unavoidable. Scoot knows the 787 issue and sells many tickets on it anyway without back up plan. is that the way of doing business? head, I win; tail, you lose.
i’m not quite sure i understand the mentality that some people seem to have that “if you fly budget you deserve to be treated like crap”. for me, flying budget just means my expectations are tweaked accordingly. if something goes wrong, maybe the airline puts us up in an ibis, not a 4/5 star hotel. maybe they feed you packet drinks and a boxed lunch, not an extensive buffet. the idea that budget customers are any less worthy of being fed and looked after has a disconcerting undertone of elitism. it doesn’t cost much to communicate things in a timely… Read more »
Aaron, if they these people want to give up their right to having food, water and decent place to sleep when their plane is delayed, then more power to them. What appalls me is that they’re so willing to give up other people’s dignity as well.
It’s never about how much you paid to be treated with dignity when things go wrong at their end. Society must be really messed up the moment we start pricing dignity.
Wow dignity. if the airline never give u free food, never give you free hotel, you no dignity.
They give you free lunch and free packet drink, you have dignity. Hmmm. Of course its never about the money, Its the principle and dignity.
“They’re so willing to give up other people’s dignity as well.” Wow, So easy to have made you give up your dignity. Puzzled.
Since you’ve managed to break it down so plainly, you’re absolutely right! It’s not so much the value of the packet meal or the cost of the accommodation. It is how the airline views their customers as human beings. If through no fault of mine, I am left to my defenses to sleep on the floor and incur additional cost for food, it is an affront to my dignity if the airline treats me that way. You can waive the benefits if you wish to be treated like that, but my guess is that you will be scrambling for the… Read more »
“if you fly budget you deserve to be treated like crap”. Did I say that ? I think I said “mange your expectations” “if something goes wrong, maybe the airline puts us up in an ibis, not a 4/5 star hotel. ” I think its a great idea. And if the airline doesn’t ? “they feed you packet drinks and a boxed lunch, not an extensive buffet. the idea that budget customers are any less worthy of being fed and looked after has a disconcerting undertone of elitism.” Less worthy. Hmmm. Undertone of elitism ? Hmmm. You traveling in budget… Read more »
When people buy ticket on budget airline, it is about budget in-flight service. No meal. No seat choice. No luggage. People don’t enter a contract in which they will be treated like crap when things go wrong.
“budget in-flight service. No meal. No seat No seat choice. No luggage”. I see, so the budget airline is run differently from full service is only the inflight portion then. Hmmm.
“People don’t enter a contract in which they will be treated like crap when things go wrong.”
Agree with that. Bec there no such contract when u buy a seat. they agree to send u from A to B at time C. Don’t think there’s any mention of how treatment.
Please read the CoC from Scoot. Scoot has responsibility to customers when things go wrong. I dare Scoot to put how passengers will be treated when things go wrong into the CoC. I want to see how many people are going to purchase tickets from Scoot. Especially when passengers are stuck after security check, Scoot ought to provide food and drink after regular mealtime. What do you expect passengers to do? Starvation? PoWs get better treatment. Or passengers should be released to feed themselves and rest, but Scoot has to provide accurate information when the passengers should return in a… Read more »
“Please read the CoC from Scoot. Scoot has responsibility to customers when things go wrong” I certainly have never read this when I book a airline ticket. Please do enlighten what might these be relating to flight delays. If these responsibilities of the carrier are clearly spelt in CoC but were not exercised during the crisis times, surely the affected passenger has a legal recourse. The lost of dignity or airline no giving a crap about our basic rights can be pursued through the legal channel. The lost of dignity can then reimbursed in monetary terms. No ?
In your opinion what constitutes full service airline treatment ?
The least, timely and accurate information is not about full service treatment. But that’s the most difficult thing to get from Scoot.
People can’t make informed decision without timely and accurate information.
In your opinion, how would you expect to be treated by a budget airline in a 6, 24 or 48hr delay?
NB: I wouldn’t be surprised to get a gung ho answer, but the proof will be in the pudding.
“In your opinion, how would you expect to be treated by a budget airline in a 6, 24 or 48hr delay?” Budget airline, run on a low cost model, don’t expect to have standby plane to be able to be called on a moments notice if the original is unavailable. Outside of the home base city or country, don’t expect ground service staff to be dedicated crew from the airline. Outsourced staff can’t do much outside of normal checkin staff. So expected that they cannot respond speedily. Its all in the expectations. Efficient, cheap, good service. Possible ? Sure, But… Read more »
“Cannot expect them to respond speedily”. Fair enough. However, after writing so much, we already know your opinion on what passengers ought NOT to expect. Why is it so difficult for you to tell us what YOU, as a passenger, expect to happen when you are caught in a delay that is 6, 24 or 48hr long?
After all the circuitous reasoning, can I take it that you would still expect them to eventually respond by communicating what they plan to do and, that food and simple accommodation in long delays should be provided?
“Why is it so difficult for you to tell us what YOU, as a passenger, expect to happen when you are caught in a delay that is 6, 24 or 48hr long” Clearly it really depends on what you paid for, No ? If one is traveling on a decent full service airline, say SQ, regardless of whether I’m economy or if I sit at the front of the aircraft, I’d expect the airline to provide all the above that was mentioned. Meals, Hotel accommodation for the entire duration of the delay, transport both ways for all affected passengers, keep… Read more »
Aiya… u all discuss so much for what unless one of you taking over as CEO of Scoot lol… if not all just shooting blank here what
Simple mah… if want to take then take if dont take can choose other airlines lor… do transit, etc. If take already problem happen, then kao beh lor. usually is always lidat one mah. lol
LOL. Still trying to obfuscate. We’re talking about budget airlines and their lack of recovery service but yet you choose to give your recovery expectations for a full service airline and the in-flight service expectations for a budget airline. I’m guessing that you don’t want to answer this simple question with a direct answer because of the sheer cognitive dissonance it is causing you.
One more chance:
What would you expect a budget airline to do if you were a passenger on one of their flights that was delayed, through technical difficulties, for 6, 24 and 48hrs?
Nice. Keith calling out others for obfuscating, whilst he got caught out previously for the exact same thing, got exposed, wasn’t happy that his dignity got pricked and lost his dignified façade along with it.
At least Newbie is trying to explain himself. Unlike someone who only knows how to scoff and belittle. Then runs away when asked to explain. We’re still waiting for you to explain in detail why filing a claim in the country where the delay took place is “irresponsible rubbish”. For the record, you asked for an example and I gave you one. EU 261/2004 compels airlines to provide relief in the event of a delay of their causing. That’s a reasonable example of mitigation. Too bad you continue to scoff and belittle without explaining why it is not acceptable. Since… Read more »
Actually dude, you really can’t demand that I do anything. Period. Regardless whether you gimme 1 more chance or 2 more chance. Goodbye.
Newbie- Thank you for your answer. It confirms everything I suspected about you. Full of bravado when defending Scoot, but when you have to face the reality of not receiving any information or assistance, you’re not willing to embrace those principles, yourself. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, isn’t it? The moral of the story is this. It is very easy to tell distressed passengers to “suck it up”, “you asked for it”, “buy cheap, still want good”, etc. But when put in the same situation, they’d be reacting the very same way as any distressed passenger would- demanding for information,… Read more »
So? What are you going to do about it ?
Nothing. I’ve already got my confirmation.
You framing up your confirmation?
What started off as a ‘head-shaking moment’, quite quickly turned into a ‘Netflix-alternative’, and has since further deteriorated to face-palming, name-calling, challenges, and who knows.. someone might actually ‘put-place’?? Hey Aaron… What about, let’s NOT talk about Scoot… cos the whole aim/goal/point of blogs like yours, is to “travel better, for less!”, no? instead of “traveling by least, and face the consequences..”? Spread the love, people.. not the hate.. don’t hate the haters.. love the lovers.. Life is good.. and it’s should be savored at 30,000 ft with DP or Krug in one hand, and a Melba toast with caviar… Read more »
[…] by the incidents listed out on Milelion, a website that specialises in travel hacks, this delay would mark the eighth major delay that has […]
The delays and issues are much deeper than just the 7+ hour delays flights you list. There are plenty of 3-6 hour delays that do not get headlines, but are symptoms of the same problems. ✈️ – I had delays on 3 out of 6 of my Oct/Nov Scoot flights to HK, KL and BKK. Two were over 3 hours late, so I got their $50 voucher to future flights – yeah? I pass to friends who still can trust Scoot. – 2019 is Scoot-free for me. Hope by 2020 they get their act together. Another reason I have given… Read more »
thanks for sharing michael. i’m sure there must be some online database i can use to see on time performance, but i can’t seem to find it right now. fwiw, i had a completely drama-free scoot flight back from bali a few days ago. i’d certainly be weary of any 787-operated flight, but it seems the narrowbodies have better luck.