It’s been well documented just how frustrating the SQ waitlist process can be.
You can find an entire thread on FT dedicated to people providing datapoints on their own experiences.ย You can find people who swear by certain methods of clearing (“oh just show up at the CS center at Ion and make a scene and they’ll clear it”, “oh just send chasers every day and they’ll clear it”, “oh just date someone in theย revenue control department and they’ll clear it” [any takers?]).ย It’s perhapsย not surprising that two of the most read articles on The Milelion deal directly with this topic
Experimenting with the SQ Waitlist
You see, SQ premium cabin saver awardsย are like productive office meetings. You hear so much about them you’re quite certain they must exist, just that you haven’t had the good fortune of encountering them before.
This award space availabilityย issue came to mind again when I was reading the latest post by Gary Leff at View from the Wing. ย Gary Leff is widely acknowledged to be the grand master of the miles and points game. You can read his CV here if you’re interested, but suffice to say this man has forgotten more about the hobby than I’ll ever know.
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2016/08/01/18-tricks-you-should-know-about-singapore-airlines-krisflyer/
Gary was writing about the Krisflyer program and pointed out 18 tricks about it (most of them were more factual things rather than tricks but anyway). I agree with most of what he’s got there, namely that Krisflyer can be a great option for redeeming Star Alliance awards and that Krisflyer has some of the most generous cancellation policiesย and penalties in the market. I also think that mile for mile, Krisflyer has some of the lowest mileage requirements of any frequent flyer program (because, in part, they collect ridiculous amounts of fuel surcharges on awards)
However, there was one pointย he made that didn’t resonate at allย with me based on my own experience.
(5) Singapore Airlines Krisflyer business awards are easy to get and so is Suites class- on certain routes
Wait a minute,ย I thought. That can’t be right.ย This just sounded intuitively wrong to me, given how frustrated I (and many others) get about SQ’s super untransparent waitlist process. I suppose if he’s talking about short haul hops then yeah, I know you can easily get business class awards to Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur and Bali. But surely award space elsewhere is severely restricted?
The Analysis
So, like any good consultant, I went to gather data.ย I looked for Saturday departure slots for two awardย seats in business and first class (because I imagine that people redeeming milesย for leisure travel would look to maximise their leave by flying over as soon as the weekend started).
I tried this at 7 day, 30 day, 90 day, 180 day and 355 day intervals (in reality it will be +/- a few days because I wanted to get the Saturday departure slots) for medium and long-haul routes.
A caveat to the analysis below- this may present a somewhatย overgenerous picture of award space, because
- My herustic was that so long as there was an award flight available in a givenย bucket (saver/standard) on that day (Saturday), I put the status as “A”. This means that if there were an 8am flight on waitlist and a 11pm flight for immediate confirmation, the overall status would be “A”, notwithstanding the fact that you’d obviously prefer to maximise your vacation time by flying off on Saturday morning than night
- There may beย award flights available with long layovers (>4 hours, sometimes as much as 12 hours) between the first and second leg. This is often the case when you fly with one of SQ’s 5th freedom flights (eg ICN-LAX, HKG-SFO, FRA-JFK) and there’s space on the 5th freedom leg but not the first one. In this case I’d also show the status as “A”,ย but the flight might not make sense for you to book.
- Even if you see “A” below, it does not necessarily mean that a seat is available in the aircraft type of your choice. For example, SQ operates both A380s and 77Ws to Sydney. You may want to fly in Suites, but award space may only be available in First (you poor thing)
That said, what I found was very, very surprising.
Business Awards
I wasn’t surprised to see that there was good Business Saver awardย space within 7 days of departure. This is when airlines typically try and monetize whatever they can’t sell (that said, I thought SQ was so snobbish about its premium cabin products it would rather let them fly empty than cheapen them through opening up ‘excessive’ redemptions) Although it was disappointing you still couldn’t confirm two seats to LHR or LAX, you’d likely be able to route there through other locations like FRA or SFO.
I was surprised to see that SQ wasn’t releasing as many routes as I thought straight to waitlist for business saver. ย With the exception of CDG (which seems to be strictly capacity controlled for all dates) JFK,(which is notoriously hard to redeem premium cabin space) and AKL (which based on the table above is also capacity controlled, albeit not as strictly as CDG), I was able to snag 2X Business Savers for Saturday departures for all the 14 destinations I looked at provided I was willing to book 1 year in advance. I guess that doesn’t serve as much comfort if you’re trying to get on SQ26, but hey, a lot of ways to get to New York.
You can see a summary of the business award situation below (% refer to theย number of routes with instant confirmation available in Saver and Standard).
It would also appear that if you’re looking to get Business Saver availability, you’re still good up to 6 months in advance of departure. Once you hit the 3 month window, space dries up. 30 days out, it’s almost impossible to get immediate confirmation for any long haul routes and you need to wait till the 7 day window for availability to pick up again.
Based on this, I’d say that if you’re looking to get 2X Business Saver awards-
- The best routes would be HKG, BOM, NRT, FRA, SYD and MEL. Unsurprisingly, these are also the routes where SQ operates several flights a day, making your chances much better.
- The worst routes would be CDG, AKL, JFK, with ZUR and LHR also potentially tricky. With the exception of LHR, SQ operates no more than one flight a day to each of these destinations. Supply and demand again, I suppose.
First/Suites Awards
Now, this is a very different dynamic altogether. For anything within 90 days, it’s almost impossible to get instant confirmation for First Savers. Even 180 days is very patchy.
Your best bet is to get 2xย First Class Saversย is to snag these as soon as the award space opens. This unfortunately means having to plan one year in advance, but hey, if it means getting to experience Suites I’d say that’s something to plan a trip around. ย I was pleased to note that you could get 2X Suite Savers for instant confirmation on JFK, CDG, LHR, SYD, MEL, BOM, ZUR and HKG if you were willing to go 355 days out.
I’d say that with First Class, the sooner you book the better. Award space doesn’t seem to open up within 7 days the way it does for business. Given how tetchy SQ is about clearing award waitlists, I wouldn’t risk it.
If you’re looking to get 2X First Saver Awards,
- The best routes are those to Australia (MEL, SYD). ย CDG, HKG and BOM are also available a bit further out, and the idea of getting 2x Suites class tickets to Paris might be very attractive to some honeymooning couples (or maybe not, considering the state that France is currently in)
- The worst routes? Take your pick. If you absolutely want to get 2 First saver tickets you need to plan ahead, don’t try and elope I suppose is the argument here
Further Thoughts
So Gary is sort of right. If you’re not fussy, you can still get saver space on most of SQ’s premium cabin routes.ย
If you’re ok with flying later on Saturday and burning more of your holiday time, or if you’re ok with flying an aircraft with older cabin products (or sometimes regional business even in the case of the A330s),ย or if you’re ok with a long layover, then you should be able to get saver award space for two people at least in business class.
I would love to redo the above analysis given stricter conditions (eg I only want a layover of 3 hours or less, I want to fly out before 12pm on a Saturday to maximise my leave) . Anecdotally, I know that the picture would change quite a bit, butย the equation for each person is so different it’d be impossible to create every permutation of factors.
So- the lessons.ย In general, the earlier you book, the better. For First Class, early booking is almost mandatory for 2 saver awards. Forย Business, you can get away with very early or very late.
Krisflyer is far from a perfect program, but perhaps the award situation is not as bad as I first thought…
Thank you Aaron for spending the time on this. It is undoubtably the best analysis I have ever seen of SQ award availability, and matches with my anecdotal experience.
Award space really works if you can be flexible on dates, so rerunning with a +/-3 day acceptability criteria should give even higher scores. Maybe I’ll take that as a project for a wet weekend…
thanks phil- any idea how to write scripts? that might make things a lot easier…
The problem is that you need to be logged in to run reward searches. Any sort of scripted searching might get your account blocked…
Something like Expertflyer or KVS would be ideal if they have access to KF members inventory – I don’t know if they do.
my kvs expired in july. they do have access to kf member inventory though. but i can’t remember if they distinguish between saver and standard.
You piqued my interest in KVS. Apparently it does support KF award levels, though its labelling is confusing. Standards are really Savers. Mediums are Standards.
http://www.kvstool.com/FAQ.php#Method_Awards_SQ
KVS Tool fully supports SQ Award Availability at all KF levels (incl. “Saver” and “Standard”):
Please consult the SQ section of the KVS Tool User Guide for further details:
http://Help.KVSTool.com/#SQ
yup my bad. used it so long ago I forgot it had that feature. would have saved me a lot of time on this article…
i found it much easier to go from waitlist to confirmed seat when i was krisflyer gold, than when i am krisflyer silver.
i’m KF gold and still waiting on a lot of waitlists sadly.
Good stuff! Did you have a script to run this or you manually did 14 x 5 x 2 searches?
i wish i knew how to write a script. it would have saved me a lot of time! I need to learn though. this was all manual
Great insights, thanks for taking the time to do this! Sad to see how difficult it seems to redeem CDG in Business though as this is the one I’m saving up forโฆ
save a bit more and go for suites dude. all the way!
Hi. May I know for AKL, why sometimes it’s A380 and sometimes it’s 777 aircraft? How to know what aircraft is deployed at which period? Thanks
you can check the schedule on SQ.com. it will show you what periods which aircraft type is used
Prob is for the same date, sometimes it shows 380. Sometimes 777 when I search on another day. No definitive period pre-defined on when they will deploy which aircraft?
suppose this doesn’t help?
http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/en_UK/promotions/a380.jsp
Hey brother, good article as usual. I’m thinking of doing the double seat biz to NYC on business standard (459k miles). It’s a confirmed deal as compared my waitlisted saver flights. Sigh, EXPENSIVE in miles I know.
I was thinking if my waitlisted flight comes up I can cancel and do the waitlisted flight instead, like a kind of a hedged bet. What do you think? What are the chances and is this a good idea? We don’t really fly much and we have been squirreling the miles.
sorry didn’t quite get what you’re saying. you’re saying you’ve got standard confirmed and saver on waitlist?
Is that even allowed?
oh yes, definitely. if the saver opens up they’ll refund you the mile difference between saver and standard. which sort of begs the question- if SQ knows the passenger is already willing to shell out the miles for a standard, why would they open the saver and leave miles on the table? I don’t know the answer to that.
Personal experience – I three times redeemed SIN-TYO award tickets last three years and always First was available when Business was on waitlist. Usually it ended up that one leg was in First and return in Business.
My wife, who have been on these flights said that she was only person in First class cabin.
not really surprised. loads for F are pretty bad, it’s J that is the real money maker for the airlines. F is more like a halo product.
[…] I do not know the true scale of this problem. I do not know to what extent it is causing the backlog of waitlists, the lack of saver flights on certain routes and other KrisFlyer woes. That is something that SQ owes its members to find […]
hi Aaron, I have been checking 1 way Singapore-JFK, it’s always Waitlist on 1st class ๐
Any thoughts or tricks?
Thanks
unfortunately not. for that route the only way i know is to book 355 days out (or whatever the maximum window is). suppose you’re looking for 2 tix?
Yup, I am checking like 355 days out, so it doesn’t make sense to me as I check it once a new date is available ๐ tried 2 tickets and also 1 ticket as well.
Hi Aaron
Quick question on redeeming a pair of business class tickets to Taipei or Tokyo.
It seems like it is very hard to get 2 seats but easier to get 1 seat. How does the system work? If I book 1 first.. will SQ open up another one for redemption soon? In other words- how do I ensure that me and my gf are on the same flight? Any ideas?
Having read this I thought it was rather enlightening.
I appreciate you taking the time and effort to put this content together.
I once again find myself personally spending a significant
amount of time both reading and leaving comments. But so what,
it was still worth it!
If I’m on waitlist and my miles is expiring, will my miles get burn if I do not get any confirmation before the expiry date?
Yes sadly
Hi aaron, any hope of getting any business or first class for me ,my wife and toddler?Was hoping for sin to london or sin to lax or SF.
Thanks!
more details please. routes, flights, are you willing to pay standard rates…
Thanks aaron.. i am looking at saver as i do not have enough miles for standard for now.. jus wan to experience business or first class on a long haul.. preferably to london or anywhere im the states.. not fussy with timing of flights or dates..thanks once again!
you can have a look at this article. Unless you’re booking 180+ days out, it is very hard to get 2x business saver for SIN-LHR, much less 3. i’d recommend trying for FRA/CDG or some other european destination and then taking a connecting flight to london.
where US is concerned, you might have a good chance of getting business saver on the a350 to IAH, i’ve tended to note that loads are lighter.
Hi aaron, any hope of getting any business or first class for me ,my wife and toddler?Was hoping for sin to london or sin to lax or SF.
Thanks!!
hi aaron. noob here. just wondering. when it says award available does not mean I can confirm the flight immediately? thanks!
does it mean*
yes.
Hi Aaron,
For KF Award, is it possible to downgrade redemption class. Say i want to redeem economy saver but the flight is wait listed, then rather than redeem advantage economy , i redeem business saver instead. If lets say my wait listed clear,is it possible i downgraded my business redemption to economy redemption and get miles refunded ?
All depends on whether space in that particular bucket is available